How I Developed My Clothing Brand Over My Long Successful Battle From Cancer? | Charles Jay | The Hustleman Show Episode 8

In this episode of the Hustle Man Podcast, Mohammed Easmel sits down with the owner of URBANE, Charles Jay! In this episode of the Hustle Man Podcast, Mohammed Easmel sits down with the owner of URBANE, Charles Jay! Since he was young, he was diagnosed with cancer which would affect his life. However after fighting through it throughout his childhood, he takes his story and uses it to establish his brand URBANE.

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Transcript

0:01

My life has really just been a testimony of people telling me things that I can't do that has been a thing since I was younger, like I was smaller than everybody and so it was like, I got to have that confidence in everything that I do. And this is what I've been trying to preach to a lot of people is, I can give you, I can give you the tools, I can give you the resources, but I can't do the work for you. (Sure) So (yeah) everything that we can offer you I'm gonna give it to you, but it's up to you to take it and run with it. And that was something I had to teach myself. That's how I just approached everything moving forward. So like confidence. Bro you, nobody can definitely someone, nobody can take that away from me, I created my own. Nobody can take my confidence away from me and unless I allow them to. You're tuned in to another episode of The Hustleman Show. If you're a first time watcher, we've gotten a lot of different kinds of people on here so far. We've gotten people that are trying to make it as artists. We've gotten established artists on here. People that have started their own business people that have a consulting business for the marijuana industry. Just a varying range of people we've had a puppeteer on here. My next guest has a very very interesting story. He's in the apparel industry. He started his own brand. And I'd like to welcome to the show, Mr. Charles Jay. Charles. How are you, My friend? Whats going on? How's everything? god? Everything good yeah, you know is a marathon. Good. Absolutely. And I see you got you got the marathon running behind you too? Always. that's what I saw I listened to, man, Vertical Integration that's what Nipsey talked about right? For sure. For sure. So, has any of that stuck with you, that Vertical Integration? Listen that that's been in the back of my mind since day one, even before I started my clothing brand. My idea of the brand was really just to be a testimony for what I can help do for somebody else. And that was my vision from five six years ago from a gate. So, you know, being able to kind of bring that idea into fruition. Now, with the space that we actually just leased out. It's kind of like just everything coming full circle. Still dope, man. That's dope, I want to congratulate you on your new space, bro. Um, but before we peel that back and really get- get to know that. I just want to talk about a little bit more about you as a person. You know what, what this, a lot of people launch brands, and they miss one of the most important aspects for launching a brand is that story that fundamental reason for- for pushing that extra mile. Right? And in this day and age you know a lot of people have choices. They don't have to choose you, they can choose anybody else, right? So I feel like that- that- that story right now, so fundamental, to why people bang with you, as a brand, as a company, as a person or whatever it is, right? So, a little bit, a little bit of background about you as a person, you know, how you be, how you, you know, started the brand. And then what um you know what transpired in order to get you there? Right. I mean we'll we'll uh we'll start from the beginning. So at age two, I was diagnosed with a wilms tumor. I can't kidney cancer, have my right kidney removed, went through chemotherapy. And growing up I was kind of always in a, not even I wouldn't say fashion, I would say more so personal style like that was what I loved and what I've been able to like being able to express myself through, you know, getting dressed every single day. I will go to class in college, and even in high school I would wear like a blazer and a bow tie. I would be like that weird kid that was just like always dressed up for no reason at all. So, when I was in college I actually taught myself how to do graphic design and web design. So I was building logos and doing websites for other brands and photographer at the time, who was a good friend of mine, Devin Dooley. He actually ended up going on tour with Brian Leslie and I was handling a lot of his bookings, creative direction and things like that for him. So once I graduated from college, I was like yo I want to start something that, you know, I can call my own but from the gate I didn't want to start like a T shirt brand. I didn't want to just, you know, grab wholesale blanks and screenprint or embroider on them, I wanted to construct a garment from scratch. And I had no type of, you know history in, like in the fashion industry. I didn't go to school for it. The only thing I knew was, you know, the graphic part where I know if I could get something down digitally I could eventually get to a final product. (Sure.) So that summer after I graduated I grabbed my LLC. I had a little bit of money saved up I was working full time in college and playing basketball and going to school full time so like I was running 18, 19, 20 hours a day whether it was work. School, or basketball. So, I had a little bit of bread saved up, and I started you know finding manufacturers overseas, like I didn't want to just I started I dealt with local first like I don't know US, and the price points were just extremely too high (right) like I got a custom bag baseball jersey made it was like all white stitched polyester jersey, and it was running me like $95, a unit, like realistically for me to even be a successful business I gotta sell it for like $300 (right) and make like a decent amount of money so I came out the gate with that Sony that $300 I sold a couple of them I had a couple friends that were in the NFL and the NBA, so they bought it, but the average consumer couldn't afford that. So I was like yo I gotta find something that you know can get my cost down a little bit, but I can also do a little bit more customization. So, that throughout the rest of the summer I started looking for manufacturers on Alibaba. And I started testing out manufacturers. And as I started going through that process, manufacturers would ask me hey do you have this do you have that, and I had no idea what they were talking about, but I would never tell them no, I would just tell them yeah I can get it to you tomorrow or get it to you the next day, and they were basically walking me through the entire manufacturing process (they were teaching you?) exactly(what you're allowing yourself to be taught through the process?) exactly yeah yeah so basically walk me through the process and then after I went through the process like three or four times of like just getting the sample made. I started to understand like okay this is what the manufacturers are looking for any price point. They need to touch- The quantity number they need to know what materials are going to be used. You cannot just have an idea, everybody's got ideas. It's got to be a lot more than ideas. Right, Exactly. And then I started diving into you know like what what is the text, what is it tech black, (right) what does that consist of is it consist of me just having a digital mock up or is it me actually doing and doing all my own measurements and hand picking on my fabric and understanding the difference between you know fabric weights, GSM, and all of that stuff so that process has been really like the last four years. It's like trial and error. Listen out products. Let me, let me stop you for a second because you said something that was interesting. You say you save some money, right out of college, and then you started you started your label, right? what, two questions. First question is, why were you empowered to even start the label? why did you think that you can pop it off? Right? This is because you have that you have to have the audacity of self confidence to do that (without a doubt) right? Now, not a lot of people can think to themselves, I'm going to launch this this label I'm going to take it where it needs to go. Second thing is, for some of the people listening to this right there there's they're aspiring to start a business. They're, they're aspiring to start a label a clothing label, a record label, whatever the case may be. They want to understand. Some people are like, really, really, preparation oriented right they're always trying to prepare it but they don't ever get to actually doing it because the preparation takes precedent.(Yeah) So how much money did you start your business with because that's always an interesting question. Ah, I mean I don't like to talk about it because I look at it like one of the biggest mistakes I ever made, but I had so I didn't pay my term bill when I graduated. So instead of paying my term bill like when I graduated I didn't get my diploma, I had a term bill in my like diploma when they handed it to me. So I feel to this day don't have my diploma, I took that money and started my brand, so I had, I had about eight to 10 k saved up. And I put all of that into just finding manufacturers, I didn't care about. I was so busy being creative that I didn't even care about the business aspect of things, because I was like yo I just want to create something. And I didn't have like a great idea at first, but it was more so I was like yo I just want to create something to get the process started. Because that's the most difficult part. Wait, hold on. So you're you're in college. Right? Ho- how many, I'm not sure what you're, you know how many people in your family graduated from college in United States but I was the first to do it myself right, which is a big deal to people when they are the first of your of your, your family to do it right?(Right) so you're i'm not i'm not talking about mine, but right you're about to, you're gonna graduate, you can't get your diploma, unless you unless you, you pay that term bill. There's a bill at the end of the semester. So along with your diploma, that the school system gives you something really, they give you a gift at the end of the diplomas process they give you a bill. So you take the money that you're supposed to pay the bill that you're saving up, and you end up investing that money into your brand. That's interesting, bro. That's very very interest I was not expecting you to say that to be honest with you. But that's. I still to this day, I still did it they have not paid that bill, and I don't. And to me, like, I graduated, like I did all I got all my credits I don't need a diploma I can put anything on my resume, so fuck my resume and say I graduated. So, but that's the testament, that's a testament to how much you really care about what it is that you're doing. You found out you valued investing in yourself, versus, giving you know another $10,000 to Xyz University. You know, I want to clarify, I want to clarify my position on that and just and just say, say this correctly, a way, you know, school is important for some people that don't really know where they're headed in life, and they need to move forward. I understand the value of that. But if you if you're not sure if you're sure about who you are and what it is that you want to do with with the rest of your life, a move like Jays move makes sense, and a move like my move makes sense like dropping out of school and taking, you know, your book money and investing in your business because that's, I have a similar story. So, and to touch on the confidence part like the first part of the question that you asked. Like, I was a basketball player in college I played basketball for four years, I walked on at Rutgers Camden I didn't get a scholarship. I'm supposed to go in school in Florida, my scholarship fell through, I ended up getting into Rutgers Camden three days before classes started I walk into coach's office and be like, Yo, I want to play on the basketball team. Here's my highlight tape because they are yeah just come to the workouts. I come to the workouts. Fast forward four to five years later, I started since I was a freshman, I gave the school the first winning season in school history, I set four to five records while I was there in my state there. And on the flip side, I wasnt supposed to be playing basketball because I only have one kidney. So from a confidence standpoint, like, my life has really just been a testimony of people telling me things that I can't do, like, yo, you're too small to play college basketball was 5' 11", 130 pounds, (right) I'm not supposed to be playing basketball in college. (Right) that's just the, the grand scheme of things, but that has been a thing since I was younger, like I was always smaller than everybody else. So it was like, I got to have that confidence in everything that I do, I got to look at myself like Yo I'm the small guy right now, but I'm not going to be always be that. And I just took that confidence with everything that I did and I just translate that competitive nature to the fashion industry when I graduated, because it was like when I started designing for my brand it wasn't like, Yo, I want to be like, you know, Supreme like that wasn't my goal. My goal was like yo I want to be the Ralph Laurent. And I thought that in my mind from the day that I started. So it wasn't like alright well I got to do this that first that step first I'm like no like I see that that's where I want to be that's who, that's the influence that I want to add. And I know I got to put my 30 to 20 years in and do that by me having, you know that vision of seeing things like, I can see the end finish, without even understanding the race (right) because I can figure that out along the way it's just like right is the same thing nipsey says running the marathon like you're gonna have obstacles, you will want to have the you know you might have to sprint here but then you might have to walk there and then you might have to eyeball your bike you might have to swim, you know, to the next destination, but it's like you're constantly just put into situations where adversity is going to pop up. And your character is going to be tested (for sure) like I had a situation with me facture where they delayed my production for nine months. I could leave flat and just be like, Yo, I'm not, I can't do this anymore, (right) but instead, how do you know I was depressed for like a month or two, but then I just went out and found a new manufacturer and built a whole another collection, and that collection was the collection that got on Swizzz Beatz, always like that, those those trials and tribulations are what's going to shape you into the person that you are like now any, any type of situation I adversity that I like is handed to me. I defeated cancer. (Yeah) anything in front of me is minor. (Sure.) And that's how I've just approached everything moving forward. So like confidence, bro you nobody can you just something something that nobody can take that away from you. I'm creating my own confidence. Nobody can take my competence away from me unless I allowed them to show and I've always been like that strong minded individual that like I don't really care what the fashion industry is doing I don't care what the person on my left or my right is doing. I'm going to do whatever I think is right and I'm going to do it my way, Tha'ts dope, that's dope, so so, where do we leave off before we went in that direction, we left off of you getting that money. You're out of school you start the label. Right? You're four years into it at this point. (Right.) You tell me man, I'm in my fifth year now You're in your fifth year, right? So, year one year two, What does it look like for you. You know, invest, you invest this money What is your one year two look like? and then give me like a fork in the road right after you start that says, I think I'm onto something here. Ah, so year one was you know like the baseball jersey and then that fall I dropped my first, um, I dropped my first set of like hoodies and stuff was- Was, was the baseball Jersey, Jersey a win for you because of design? Was it a win for you because of the economics of it? or it was just kind of like, let me see if I can do this I can do this. Let's see. Yeah, the baseball jersey was more so like(Testing the waters?) I made the I made the decision to start it. Yeah, I was kind of like you know the kickstart to get things rolling. And I came out the gates, selling,$300, I wasn't nobody people were asking me like yo Who the fuck do you think you are selling a baseball jersey for $300. And it's just the fact that I really didn't care about what they thought because I knew that I put so much time and effort into my product and quality was always my, my foundation (right) I always made sure that my products are a certain level before they even touch the market. So, even I didn't, I had no really no idea what I was doing with the baseball jersey, the quality of it was still phenomenal. (Right) so like I didn't lack in that area so when I've dropped it for $300, I had a couple people that bought it, but I only had like 10 or 15 units made I didn't have to go get 50 or 100 because I got to meet in the US. So that was like just a trial that I went through, I was like, Oh wow, like, I can do this. and then now, I started getting into the overseas manufacturing in and I started designing like that next collection like my first official collection dropped fall winter of 2016. That was my first cut and soul collection that ever dropped. So I really didn't drop a full collection until a year after I started. (Right.) Most people would have just dropped a collection like at Fall and be like, yo, like my brain is here is rolling but I just took the time to invest in figuring out the process first, before I started you know really putting my product out like the baseball jersey was just a test, they're like, Oh yeah, I got a brand, here's something that we put out, and it's just a little taste, and then I took a year to figure out the manufacturing process tech packs, sourcing fabric. And then that fall, 2016 was a launch that let people know like, Yo, I'm serious about this. (Yeah) I'm, I'm really serious about being a designer, not just having a T-shirt brand. (Yeah) I had a sway I had a sweet zip up shirt, a sway bomber jacket. I had a short sleeve sweatshirt that had paint splattered all over screenprinted then at a Terry towel logo embroidered on top. So when it came to like, just me doing random stuff that like was super untraditional. I did that from the gate. And I think that's what allowed me to really stay true to that vision so year two and year three, was kind of like, you know, the second part of testing the waters because I just started with cutting so (right) but I had artists and, you know, local celebrities like gravitate towards my product organically, I didn't have to pay for product placement, my first two years. It was so organic at that point where people like yo that jacket is dope, where did you get it? Oh, and then, oh I got it from the brand Urbane and they were like, oh, we're like, Where are they from only based on South Jersey and then people from New York I hit me up like yo like we heard about your brand and dah dah dah dah dah and I'm just sitting here like, how did people in New York hear about my brand I'm just in South Jersey? (right) so it's like, and then I started dealing with like, you know, DJ Caution and like local celebs that you know got a little bit of buzz and the brand just started to get a little bit of awareness up (right) on social media and then, um, I just continue you know to keep releasing more products and then I did my first pop up shop. We had like 150 to 170 people come out to my first pop up shop (Where was the pop up shop) We did an open space with in Phily (That's in Philly?) yeah it was a small event space is probably like 1400, square feet, a big white room, but we didn't do a fashion show (right) we did. Basically, the models were live mannequins, so they were standing on platforms and we showcase every single piece that I released up to that point(That's dope) people loved it because it was super untraditional, and as from a design standpoint, like, that's who I am. I'm not your traditional designer I use untraditional fabrics selections and combinations. So like that just fed into the whole concept behind the brand. And then, realistically, I didn't even come up with a color block logo until a year in. So we're literally I was I only had the name at first I only had to name Urbane at first, but from a branding standpoint. I don't like having my name all over a product.(Right) forme, it's just like, it's like seeing Michael Kors like after you've seen Micheal Kors once or twice you're like, yo, like I don't need to see it anymore I understand it's a label, but like I want people to be able to see my product, and not have to see the name but still know exactly who it is. And that, and when I came up with the colorblock logo. This transcend back to when I was getting my treatment at Children's Hospital. Every morning I wake up I'll play with these building blocks. And that's how I came up with, with a logo design, but it took me a year in of my brand to figure out, you know what my Nike check or what my Adidas stripe is. And once I found that I started to build that into every single product and every single concept that I had moving forward. So that's what the color block represents represents the blocks they used to play with when you were going through your treatment?(Yeah) that's cool, man. That's very cool. So I guess that you talked about the color block a lot that I guess that was that was your pop off item year two? Yeah, that's when I released my first cut and so that's where the colored blocks actually came in, and I call that the Foundation Collection. That was like basically I look at the my interaction with the color blocks was me taking everything that I've been through, and using that for a foundation for how I was gonna live my life from an adversity standpoint, from, you know, dealing with any type of issues or problems that come my way have such a strong foundation that it doesn't matter what's really in the forefront, because I can get past that, that's what the whole foundation collection was about. So you make you make this, you make a capsule you call this The Foundation. You create a color block logo that's really representative of yourself? How do you market it? how do people know that this is a product, this is a label. This is a collection of products, how do they, how do they know about the product, how do you get it out right? So one of my mentors, was one of my coaches in high school and one of my teachers, my TV production teacher. So I did a lot of work with the kids at the high school, so we actually brought some of the kids in the intern and they shot a lot of my content from the gate. So I was able to document. A lot of the things that I was doing, whether it was design work or like my behind the scenes at Philly Fashion Week, and things like that. So, by me being able to you know tell my story visually and tell people you know that I am a cancer survivor and I went through these things and this is what's being built into the product. It allowed people to connect to the brand emotionally. But the first thing that anybody is going to see is the product (right) so with a product being dope, or, you know, it looked look good, the photography that we had was pretty good at that point where I was at in my in my fashion designer journey. People saw the product like yo and products dope. Oh, and there's a story behind it. I want to support this. So honestly the story has always been secondary for the average consumer because we see what our eyes first not we don't listen to what our ears first. (Got it.) So, so so they see- they see the product they migrate towards it and then the stories and add on? Yeah the story is just the additive. I get you, I get you yeah and I agree also. So you're, you're, but how do you mark- your marketing the product because you're able to connect with, you're able to connect with somebody at the school your mentor was able to bring you people that are understood, like content marketing. is that what it is? It wasn't even that they understood it, I just got them to record (I got you) and I visually like. After working with like all the photographers and videographers that I work with from the brand building side when I was in college. (Yeah.) Understood. You know visually how to capture a movement and bring things to life. Yeah, I gotcha. So you needed somebody to hold the camera to edit it (exactly) to produce the content and put it out and allow somebody to see the story. (Yeah) this is What year is this year three year four were one- That was year that was year two, I started that year two. So you started (I got that first collection.) I got you, o that this, this, this color block logo is two years, three years old at this point. Righ? (Yeah, two year two and a half, three year) so after the colorblock logo, I guess you got a little bit of momentum after that you have people picking up the brand and really looking at it and just just seeing what it is that you're doing. They have a saying in a musi- music industry right, you're only as good as your last hit, right? This is this is the same thing in the business world. It's the same thing in almost everything right? After the col- color block, which is dope by the way that's kind of how I was attracted to the brand. Right. The rugby piece that was my favorite one. What happens after the color block, what happens year three, year four. Look, give me some of that. So, so year after that fall collection. I like I said we picked up steam. With that collection. Then we transition into transition- transitioning into spring that spring The next year, I design these windbreakers. It was a windbreaker say windbreaker pants windbreaker jacket, but instead of using a typical nylon fabric. I researched fabric and found its fabric called taslan. Taslan is a higher grade fabric of nylon and is more durable and is waterproof. So, by me, discovering that fabric I was able to put it onto the wind breakers. Now, the wind breakers are getting ready to drop. I got somehow got connected with Wolf Tyler. And I ended up, who and who leaves me, Who is wolf Tyler? I don't know who that is. Who is that? Yeah, so wolf Tyler, back then was like a Vine celebrity, (Got it) like she was poppin on Vine, and now she transitioned in music and she's like a music artist she's based out of New York. she's from New York but lives in LA. And she's like wrote some songs I'll make the Stallion's album and stuff like that. So, I connected with her, and was able to get her a windbreaker set. She did a photoshoot with a windbreaker set. And then I did, there's a fitness instructor named Kima Russo, who reached out had like a million followers, she liked the windbreaker set so I sent it out to her, she posted it. So now I'm getting like all this like celebrity, you know, endorsement buzz on the brand, so like I wasn't (organic- organic), it was, it was organic yeah so all that stuff came through organic and then Style is started reaching out to me that work with artists, and I knew like from, you know, the process of trying to get something to artists, you got to go to the people that are around them because the odds of you getting in contact with them directly are really slim to none.(Sure) especially in an era of social media. So, a lot of stylist started reaching out and I just started getting more placements like we, I got to play ended up getting a placement. The next year after that I got placements, like Love & Hip Hop and stuff like that but still being in that year after the fall collection. I walked in Philly Fashion Week. Then I did another pop up shop, which was extremely successful like back to back so I Philly Fashion Week One week and then two weeks later I did a pop up (how important) had that moment, (how- how-) Sorry, sorry to interrupt you, I don't want to cut you off but how important is Philly fas- Fashion Week? In the, in this process for you. How important is putting your products in the Philadelphia market and getting that kind of getting a response out of it? That really that people kind of migrate towards and give you that validation? (Yeah) how important or wasn't important for you, Philly. I think Philly Fashion Week was was more so big, not for me to just get my product out there. It was big for me, because it allowed me like- I didn't know some way just Philly Philly fashion week where sometimes you got paid for a slot. I didn't have to pay for a slot. I ended up getting offered a slot last minute, like a week before the show because they had somebody that dropped out, and they had to fill the slot so they reached out to me as I hey I saw your brand on Instagram. We'd love to have you in Philly fashion week we had somebody drop out so I ended up taking the slot. And I showcase the branding for Philly Fashion Week but at that time I was working as a store manager and retail for Aldo, and they had a Friday night, Thursday night they had a show, Friday night you were able to sit with the director from New York Fashion Week, and they could view your collection. I wasn't even able to go to that part of the fashion week because I have to work that night. So I missed that opportunity. But then I want Saturday in Fashion Week. And the feedback that we got from Fashion Week was phenomenal. Because people gravitated towards the logo and the color blocking because back in 2016, 2017. People weren't wearing a lot of like loud colors, it was still one that like monotone(right) real neutral vibe and for my brand and walking fashion we can people see in all these loud colors and designs, but the quality of the product was alone with that. I got a lot of buzz in the fashion realm of Philly because there's an urban market, then there's Philly Fashion Week market is two completely different markets, (Absolutely) so I had a part of the urban, the urban community already but for me to tap into the affiliate Fashion Week market. There are people who you know own boutiques and magazines and, like, after Philly Fashion Week, there was a lot of people who have eyes on the brand and it allowed me to get featured in like a couple of Philly magazines. (That's dope) with just those collections that we showed in Philly Fashion Week, and then right after Philly Fashion Week, two weeks later we were featured in to UK fashion magazine. I sent out product to a model that was in the UK. I linked up with a photographer sent them product out to the model, they ended up doing a shoot in the UK and I wasn't even there. (Wow.) They did the shoot and we got featured in two UK fashion magazines just based off of that shoot That's dope, so it sounds to me like the amount of passion that you put into your brand bro. It just, it allows you to elevate the game and you really, you put your time and your money, and really just crafting a product that's really, really, that resonates with you, and then the customer. Is that accurate? Yeah, nah, I think that's that's the foundation of who I am like I'm not just gonna put something out there to put it out. But with the brand, it allowed me to, you know, it's an extension of me, like, that's how I look at it, my brand is an extension of who I am as a person, my story. And on the flip side, just being able to understand my vision for what fashion is or what my idea of fashion is and not let the industry try to speed me up, or the industry try to change my, my thought process, like I don't, I'll look at other designers very briefly, I don't study them though. I'll study their business models but I'm not studying them as a designer because I don't want to be them from the design standpoint, I want to be them from the business model. I want to look at Ralph Lauren and look at. Okay. How did he grow his business from, you know, just making polo shirts to offering women's and home goods and handbags and having brand segmentation with RL and Purple Label like those are the things I'm looking at I don't care about who's designing what, or what's on the trend report or what's on a Pantone color report, I don't care about none of that. I don't design based on trends, I design stuff that to me is timeless like you is 10 years from now is something you could wear. Sure, I understand totally understand totally they say what it was the same they say fashion is temporary? It was the saying it was fashion as tempor- Fashion is temporary. Style is- Timeless right? Yep. That's it. Yeah, so, your, the way that the way that you crafting product is not on a set schedule, it sounds like you're making capsules based on when you want to drop the capsules. It's not like you have a summer, fall, spring, you know like drops, I haven't- I've never I haven't, I don't think I've ever adopted. Like, I can label something as fall winter in the sea and like the year.(Yeah) but like, I've never adopted the idea of the fashion industry. (Sure) I think, I think the fashion industry is the biggest joke in the world. And as I as I begin getting more acclimated with the processes of you know like designing sneakers and designing handbags and just designing clothes in general, I understand 80% of the market is bullshit. Like- What makes you say, what makes you say 80% of the markets bullshit, why do you say that?-80% So 80% of the market is bullshit to me like this is my personal opinion, because I can go on Alibaba, get a vendor. I don't even have to design anything I can just send him my logo and tell him to put it on a shirt or jacket. (Sure.) And that's up to me that's 80% of the market, (right) like if you really sit back and you look at you know the FashionNova, you look at even Prettylittlethings, Forever 21, H&M. Even though they major labels Gucci, Burberry, they have products that you know you can easily go on Alibaba and get the same product. (Sure) It's not like with this era of the internet every day, the world is so small now and all the resources are accessible.(Sure) for anybody who thinks that you know like, I don't know how to do this or I can't make this product like. You can literally Google and find everything that you need in less than 15 to 20 minutes. (Absolutely, absolutely.) Everything being accessible like that the market becomes slowly oversaturated. So now it's like even sweatsuits every single brand literally might have the same vendor for sweatsuit.(Yeah.) They don't have to do any of their sizing, they can just send their logo, take the sizing that the company that the vendor has been using for years, and put their logo on and now they have a brand. So how much, how much of a project like a cut like a cut and sew piece. Are you pattern making? So me, I don't. So one thing I don't do I don't sew (right) I can't, I can't sew and I can't draw, but I can design things digitally, like in Illustrator with lines. (Right) so like I construct my garments digitally, and you know I have my colorways and my logos, I do all my sizing and measurements in house, but my manufacturer, there's a master- master pattern maker, that is, with my manufacturer. So I can send them all my digital tech back with all my specs, and they can draft my patterns for me. (They) I don't have to do my patterns in house. They create they create the tech pack they create a sample, and then they send it back to you for approval? Yeah, so I'll send them, I'll do my tech pack my measurements, I'll send it to them, they'll go to the master pattern maker, they'll make the pattern. We'll start with a sample process that takes about two weeks. I'll get to my sample in about two weeks. And then if it's ready to go on production my production takes three and a half weeks, and sample times normally like three weeks so I've been able to get building the relationships I've been able to get my cut. Cut the time cut the quantity, for sure. (Exactly) So you talked about the Ralph Lauren model twice in this conversation, how much of the work that you're doing, because every time I I pop in on you on Instagram, I popped in on a couple times on Instagram. I see this guy's working but by himself he's doing everything on his own. He's packing, he's pulling, how much of the work for this label are you doing on your own? And how much of this label do you own? How much do you have partners that that work with you in order to build? Right, so right now it's just me and my photographer. Um, that's it. We don't have anybody that's like on payroll permanently. We haven't really contracted anything out. Since I do graphic design, that's like 80% of the job. (Sure.) Um, do I need to start outsourcing? Yes because I can't do everything at the scale that I want to grow now. But, um, my photographer came to me about two and a half years ago. And he told me, yo I saw your brand in Philly Fashion Week. I stopped in at your pop up, your photos, your photography is not on level with the product that you're putting out.(Sure.) So he was basically telling me like your your pictures aren't as great as your product is (sure). And instead of me having an ego and being like, yo, you're just a hater. I was like, Alright, let's sit down let's have a conversation. And let's set up a shoot, I set it up to shoot his name is Roocastro, probably the best fashion photographer in Philly jersey easy like by a longshot issues with human aliens. He's been doing stuff he's about to start doing stuff with NIFA, the girl that had the three the first 3d Fashion Show, like on a fashion room he's like the goat. We did the first shoot with him. And the brand completely changed. I went from this half in streetwear half in high end brand to my brand is almost on the same level as a Michael Kors Jeremy Scott, like, from a visual standpoint. (for visuals, yeah). Yeah. So, that transcend, and that we built it kept building our relationship. We kept working together, and then he actually came in and was like yo like I believe in your story, I believe in the brand. I'm invested in it. So I ended up giving him a split of the brand. 10%. So he came in for a specific for a mount. for an amount. 10% of the brand, and he handles a lot of the photography, you know in house for the brand. And it was just me understanding that okay I can't do it all by myself I have an amazing photographer who is invested in the brand, not only because it's dope, but because the story behind it. And we can build together. So that was the biggest relationship that I've had with anybody in the brand thus far. Um, so that's what Urbane is, Urbane is 9% me, 10% is Roocastro. (Right.) And, um, that's it like I didn't take money, I didn't get money from like a million dollar investor to grow my brand or anything like that. Everything has been done in house, and it will remain in house for Urbane. because I don't want to touch. That's my baby I don't want to touch that. Like I don't want to get I don't want to give that away, because it's an extension of me. So how do you, how do you scale moving forward? Right, (so) because, because for when you're building a brand when you're building a retail brand, right, because that's what you're trying to do, you're trying to go direct to the consumer and build a brand, so far as what I can see. Right? Yeah, we haven't spoken about if there's any product placement or retail stores or anything like that. So as far as I know, right now you're trying to go direct to the customer and and in this day. That's very accessible way to get to the customer, you can. Right? So, how do you scale on your own, without a team of people without people that you put in a position to help you scale a concept, How do you do that? (right) So, um, like I was saying from the gate like the, the, my idea of the brand was to be a testimony for what I can help do for somebody else. So, from a scaling standpoint. I'm with Urbane my product can sell online, like, well, it sells well online. But it's something that has to be seen in person, for you to really believe it and understand it. (Sure) Like you can see quality and image, you can tell.(Yeah) but that necessarily won't translate to just to a purchase if it's at, you know, a medium or high price point. (Sure) Because the consumer now is more price conscious than ever because there's so many options for them to choose from (sure). For me it was like I gotta try to find a way to get into a location, or I got to find a way to have my own location where people can come in and experience the brand in real time. So, I actually had interviews with Laptstone and Hammer. And I'd interview with P's and Q's. I had interviews with them, this was about two years ago, had two interviews with them. They saw the product. Love the product, qualities, like first thing they said was yo the quality is phenomenal. (Right.) But the last thing that they said was, you don't have enough hype behind your brand. So we can't put you in a store. And for me at that point it was just a reality check like I can't rely on anybody else to give me an opportunity like I can't expect my brand to be in a store. I can't expect I can't have those expectations. So I got to create my own experience and create my own store. So, the idea with the new this new space that we lease was the idea that half from the beginning, which was the consulting part to where I could help brands elevate like I could have went and got an Urbane store completely by myself and been 100% selfish and did that and scaled the brand that way. Like easily, I could've. But instead, I wanted to create an atmosphere in a community that, you know, I can have my wall where I need to have it in the space, but I can give other brands and opportunity to help them grow. And with Urbane, it's going to allow our Bane to organically grow because now I'm in a retail location, which I run this retail location and my brand is in here. We'll have other brands in here that can help drive traffic, not only to my brand but it will help drive traffic to their brand as well. And then from a scale standpoint, now I'm in a position where I can house people if I need to. (So this is like) if I want to. This space is a collective space? That you what you, what you've done is you've leased the space. And now, and now what you're doing is you're you're positioning your brand as a brand within the space, and then you're going to lease, additional spaces to other to other vendors within that? Right, so the model is a little bit more complicated than that because this space is actually a co working space. So people can come in, you know, utilize the Wi Fi we have. We'll have a music studio, we'll have a live stream Twitch room where people you know can Twitch. Call of Duty and Xbox and whatever we have a makeup tutorial room, if a makeup artist doesn't have her own studios, she can come in and take her clients here do their makeup will have a lounge area to where you can just come in hang out watch TV. So like we created an experience space, which is like a WeWork, but it's going to have retail built into the back end. So the goal for this space is for us to get brands in house, we can help them with brand development, we can do their website mobile app, my partner who is a real estate investor actually runs a digital marketing company. So we basically took a lot of the things that we do phenomenally well and merge them into one space to where we can house a brand, develop a brand from their visuals to photography, videography. We can build their websites for them. We can do their Facebook ads. We can do their product development, whether that's from a manufacturing side overseas because I have those resources whether it's clothes accessories watches la- chains, hats, like, I can home goods, I can produce any product and now because I have those resources.(Sure.) So, with that, we're also launching our own wholesale brand. So instead of people having to you know go to a Bella canvas or a Next Level, or a Gildan, well have super high quality blanks, that our brands in house can use. So So somebody listening to this right now. And they're thinking himself man That sounds good. Well, how do I start? how can they get ahold of you? how they can reach out? can they reach out to you? So what they can do is our website will end up being alive like the first week in December, and they can just fill out a contact form, and if they want to be a part of the space, they would apply they would get a membership so like we have regular membership that'll start at $30. And then we have a membership where you can bring a guest in for $50, that's like the basic membership, where you can just come in and use the Wi Fi. You don't really get any utility inside the space but you know being around with the creatives right. Um, so, So $30 gets you what exactly it just gets you access to the space? Gives you access to the space the Wi Fi and then being able to be in here with other creatives that you can connect with because like most people like I know me, I can't sit at home on my computer, and like, just create and lock in like sometimes I got to be in a certain type of atmosphere and that's really what you know WeWork is (right) get to go somewhere else that's like, you know, a satellite office or satellite workspace where you know you might be able to socially connect with some people who are doing the same thing that you're doing. (Got it.) Um, so yeah so that's what the baseline of the space is, but us being a brand being able to come in and we can help you know develop a higher quality product. And if you want to be sold here you have to be a member, like we're not opening the doors to anybody that's just random and doesn't want anything to do with building the community in space. (Sure.) So our goal is you know you get your membership, the membership can also get you a free consultation, a free brand consultation, so we can diagnose the brand, see where the areas of opportunity are. And on the flip side, if you want to get yourself sold here you have to fill out an application. If your application is denied for your stuff to get sold in the in the space. We'll put a three to six month action plan together for you. With a budget, so that we can get you to the point where your brand can be sold here, like when I went the P's and Q's and Lapstone and Hammer. They were basically like Yo, your brand doesn't have enough pipe. You're out of luck. We can't put you in here, but they didn't tell me like, yo, if you do this or you do that, we could have opportunity here for you. (Sure) So I think that's a huge opportunity with brands because a lot of brands just don't have that direction or anybody close to them who you know has ran a brand that is somewhat successful. So by us being able to offer those tools. It can help the brands grow but it will also help our consulting business because we have a proven model with Urbane that we can build a brand and build an amazing product. We have a wholesale distribution line where we can get you higher quality blanks than you're getting anywhere else. So a brand that automatically comes in and works with us is automatically going to be elevated, And how do you, how do you price that somebody comes to you and says I have a brand. I want you to work with me on the wholesale side of it, how do you price it? Right, so all they would do is, if they're just looking for new for wholesale, they would have to just get the membership they can get a basic membership, then they get access to wholesale pricing on the, on the wholesale, or on the wholesale blanks that we have, but we'll be retailing our wholesale blanks at full price. So like if somebody random customer comes in, they're like I just want a plain black hoodie that's like phenomenal and quality, they can buy that blank hoodie for $65 or$70. But if you're a brand and you come in and you have a membership. You can get access to wholesale pricing. (Gotcha, gotcha.) And what if they want to scale their brand, how do you offer that consulting service. How do you price that? Right, so it would go on an hourly basis so like for me to do your consultations personally me, I charged $75 an hour for a consultation and any type of brand work I'm at $70 I'm Bill at $75 an hour, so whatever it takes me to do, but I can give you an action plan where you can execute because we have all the resources that you need inside the space. So if you have like a higher level membership which is probably like, I think it was $200 a month, you get access to certain amenities, whether it's, we have a cyclo wall in the space, where you can somebody can come in to you know shoot their content, you can't really go anywhere to get the cyclo wall.(Sure) So it's very very rare to find something in space, especially in South Jersey (Sure), so we have like a cyclone wall where somebody can come in and shoot video content. (How big is that) all like, How big is the space, Our space like in general? Yeah how's it That's 5000 square feet. This is a 5000 square foot space, big space man, it's not small. Huge) Yeah, (no) yeah,(It's huge.) So, okay, so I understand you're saying, so you have the photography space you have you setting up the environment you're setting up the foundation of what's needed for somebody to start a brand. Right? And we can, the thing is, and this is what I've been trying to preach to a lot of people is. We I can give you, I can give you the tools I can give you the resources. I can't do the work for you. (Sure) so I'm going to give you everything I everything that we have in house I'm gonna give you everything that we have (Yeah) everything that we can offer you I'm gonna give it to you, but it's up to you to take it and run with it. And that was something I had to teach myself when I was doing clients websites is like, I can build you a phenomenal website. But at the end of the day, (you've got) you're the one who has to push the traffic and make the money to keep it going. And that was something I had to realize because I used to take on people's brands or websites like they were my own. (Yeah) but you can't necessarily do that because it's up to them that run the machine you can't run it for now. Unless they're paying you to do that. So that was something I realized and I realized that you know if I can give somebody the resources that they need to be able to elevate their brand and they want to do the work. They can easily be successful. I've seen a different distribution like I understand the wholesale model I understand, mixing a wholesale model with a manufacturing model so that you don't have to deal with like nine months of delay production like I did. (Right.) So it's just a matter of understanding the processes, but now it's like if a brand comes in here. Just the fact that we can get you high quality wholesale blanks that nobody else has access to. That's the exclusivity factor right there. Why would nobody else have access to that people can source blanks on their own. Why would they need to go through. Why would they need to go through you? Because if they want to save time and money(right) I'll go through it. We haven't we prove we proved it already, (it's more efficient) thing that it's more efficient like even with manufacturing right so I do consultations with building products from scratch, like, whether it's a garment whatever so easily somebody could go on Alibaba find a manufacturer and go through the manufacturing process the sample process. But, and spend 1000s of dollars just to get to that point, (right) or you can pay me, somebody who's done it already. And we can do all of your ins and everything in house your sizing. I have over 1000 fabric swatches that we can choose from, visit a different bunch of different fabrics. And I can do we can do everything in house, and I can save you time and money, because you going out and finding your own manufacturer alone is going to take you three to six months. Can you easily go get some sweat suits from a vendor and put your logo on it, cool. But if you want to make a custom product that is yours that you that nobody can be like, Oh well. Oh that's definitely you know, a original favourites are that Bella Canvas or that's Cext Level or, this is a Gildan that's definitely a Gildan Hoodie, like, when you build something completely custom, nobody can tell you that it's from somewhere else. Like I can do something custom down to the different color ribbing the inside of the hook can be a different material than the outside. We can do like any type of measurements that we want. We can have Velcro on and off logos like I have no restriction. So if you want to go find your own manufacturer. Then, please. I like I applaud you. (Sure) go ahead,(sure) we've, we've done it already. Yeah. So how many of these projects have you currently done? So I've developed. I launched my sock manufacturing company last month. And I've already locked in five orders with clients already. So, last year earlier this year I launched my first set of socks, (what was MOQ on those orders?) The MOQE 100, 100 per color person per color. Yes. (What's the cost) and the price was $3.33 per pair (that) it ranges depending on how many units shifts is over, (or is that is a fob.) Yeah, that ship, should the door shift. Oh no, no, no, I'm lying, the ship shipping cost is $180 and that's it, so you got $330 plus $180 so you looking at $510 plus your sample cost which is $100 bucks, so you're looking at around $600 for 100 pairs, but that's only like the cost of your first order. After you reorder you don't have to go through the sample process again, or if you have to order a different color. You don't have to go through the sample process again, because it's the same design just different color. I got you. So where is this place located for for anybody that's watching that's interested in going there and checking it out because I will be, (yeah,) I'll be. Definitely, yeah, so we're in Avenue Black in Gloucester Premium Outlet. (Yeah) we're two doors down from Michael Kors, we were next door to Polo but Polo ended up moving to a larger- It's just crazy that I could talk about Ralph Lauren and we were damn near next door to them. But we're in the same outlet as them so lots of Premium Outlets right by Camden County College, That's dope, so how are people receiving you so far? Um, I haven't really been posted that much about the space. But the people who have came and saw it, were blown away. And then we haven't even done anything really yet, like the space is minimal right now, we have some furniture. We did a photoshoot in here last week where I set up the my section like in our base section, and we did a photoshoot with a- We get a model that came down from New York. So we did a photo shoot like they were in a store, and it was like all Urbane products all over the watches, the accessories, clothes, and we shot them basically in the shop. So we came out, it was dope. It was pretty cool? What is there any way we can see the space right now? (Oh wait, I mean if) I can, I can twist I can turn my camera around. So, this is like, what will be like an Apple Genius Bar right here. Yeah, what was what was the space. What was the space originally? What was it? Oh yeah so this was, it was New York and Company,(got it, got it.) So they actually went out of business there went, they filed bankruptcy, and they closed all their stores. (Yeah,) so we actually took over their space, let me see if my cord is going to reach. So this is like the front half of the store, try to move as much as I can hopefully it doesn't unplug but (it's big) and then you know it's it's a good size. So, and then a cyclo wall is over there in a bag (Where's the Cyclo wall?) that's on the left side. (Yeah, yeah, I see it, I see it) That's it. And then these are gonna be like the private work in booths. We got a pool table. So, What an interesting space man. Yeah, I mean Very Interesting It's going to be like I said it's going to be a project like everything's not gonna be 100% done, you know, by the time we open we're still gonna have to get some stuff you know figured out as far as like, you know, adding more amenities as we go but we just wanted to have the baseline of like the stuff that we were basically need. For now, so That's dope man, it's never really done to be honest with you. Take it. Take it from somebody that's gone through it a few times. It's never really a done process you're always kind of working on it as you go. Um, so what what is what is next for you, for the brand. Are you trying to get into retail position? Are you trying to get it, direct to consumer is that the route that you want to take? How are you going to get into that position where you think you're going to get you know RL Purple Label and how are you going to diversify yourself and get the get the brand and scale it to where you need it to be? The vision for me is you know, to focus on having Avenue Blackright now. Um, I have Urbane, Avenue Black is which is this space- Real quick, why, why the name Avenue black? So, from the gate. When I started Urbane we. I wanted to before I started Urbane I wanted to start a digital magazine. And this was five, six years ago when starting a digital magazine that cater to you know local artists fashion, music, all of those different categories, and the name Avenue Black came up because there was really no avenue, back then for artists of color. Um, as far as like, you know, digital platforms or anything like that. So that's what I wanted to create back then and ever since I had the name and kind of just stuck with me, but as then as I grew I understood the meaning behind Avenue Black is and is really you know taking things from is basically like the light at the end of the tunnel. That's really what Avenue Black is, it's you know you got to go through this avenue or you know this this tunnel that's dark, to get to the end (right) which is the light. So that was kind of like the whole vision and the whole meaning behind the true meaning behind like what Avenue Black is, um, and once I got the name, like I had like I said I had the name for over five years so it's been there, it was just, I had to evolve. The whole mindset of it, because it's not just a consulting company now. We're an entire co working conglomerate that offers consulting and brand building That's dope bro, that's very cool. So, when I first reached out to you. You know, we had a quick conversation about that that's that's a lot more involved than than I expected to be honest. So that's pretty dope. That's pretty good. And with Urbane like, what's next for that is on. We have a, we have a bunch of new pieces dropping this Friday for Black Friday. We have Velcro varsity sway bomber. I had to transition out of survival mode. So like we talked about Nipsey all the time it's something that Nipsey says is you can't operate in survival mode because when you operate in survival mode you're doing things to get to the next thing. (Right.) If I'm designing clothes and I'm in survival mode I'm like you I got to make these 30 shirts and I got to sell them all, just so I can get to the next step and that's not going to allow you to flourish. So I had to take a step back and, you know, try to figure out you know what is my purpose what is what is my legacy going to consist of. And I really enjoy helping people and helping brands. I really enjoy helping people and helping brands. So, with Avenue Black. Everybody knows. Everybody's trying to sell a product right now, like everybody in their mom is like yo I want to make t-shirts, I want to make candles, I want to make this, I want to make that, but there's very few people who want to service those people who are trying to sell a product. And that's really where my focus is because at the end of the day I have to run a business and I have to, you know, put food on the table and I have to pay my bills. I don't want to feel pressured to do that with Urbane because I won't be designing, what I want to design, I'll be designing to survive. (Right). And that's what my transition was so like now. I could do, you know, four capsules or five capsules a year, and be completely fine and satisfied with Urbane, and I don't have to feel pressure from anyone, myself, the industry or anything you know to keep dropping stuff every single week, or, you know, like because now I have a place where I can house my product. And I just redesigned all my basics that are getting manufactured, and we'll have stuff in house that you know you can just come in and take a look at all the time. And that was the part of me, adopting the retail mind of what I had when, because if you look at even any of the stores you see on Fifth Avenue York, a lot of those stores aren't profitable. (Right.) Most people think like these are billion dollar stores they're but (They're not) like the company you work for Aldo Yeah, they The only reason why they had a store on Fifth Ave was because it was a marketing cloth. Sure. Oh, if you're on vacation or you're visiting. And you see Aldo and you go in there and you're like oh my god these shoes are so cool. Let me buy them, and then you go back home in Arizona where you live, (You buy them) you are more inclined to go back to store They're los-, but they're their lost leaders, most of the stores on Fifth Avenue mostly Times Square, (Without a doubt) They're there they're actually living billboards, is what they are. Yeah. That's all it is. (Yeah, Yeah.) And when once I understood that I understood like Okay. Why would I go religiously even if I couldn't make a killing if I had my own store. Why would I go have my own store? That's just me pressuring myself that you I got to constantly put designs out because I got to keep the store full, and I got to make sure that, you know, we drop a collection every season because that's what the people want, like, but with me only having a wall in the space. I don't have to pressure myself to drop a bunch of stuff. I can drop when I want to drop and be completely contained comfortable with that. But now I have a space where I can house my brand I can house my inventory. I don't have to stress myself about, you know, working at 150 square foot office in my house and having shelves of apparel just sitting there and packaging up orders with walking over boxes I don't have to worry about that anymore because I put my ego to the side and got a bigger space that can you know benefit a lot more people. How, how are people receiving that on the benefit side, not the customer side, like how many people are coming in and, like, yeah, I want this wall. I want to take a wall in here I want to take a wall and how many people are doing that? I mean for the Black Friday pop up we have seven vendors locked in already. And I mean we have to think maybe one more slot left I might just create a slot because somebody just hit us up, but when people come in and see the space. It's like they get it. They're like, like, you're not going to go, have you have a pop up, or even get into a retail store where you'll be able to come in and merchandise your own product. Um, we have clothing racks, we have shelving space, we have gondolas. we have display tables. we have, like, there's nothing like we have literally everything because New York and company left everything for us, (right) You're not you can't like you're not going to go and you're Micheal- you damn sure you ain't going Micheal Kors and get a wall. (Right.) So it's like we're in a prime location, next to one of the biggest designers in the world right now, two doors down. You're not going to find a better location where you can come in and customize your own installment on a wall. (Right.) And let alone the traffic that comes through here. (So you find) Black Friday, (you're finding interest?) Oh yeah, without a doubt, we have, I have, because I already deal with brands already, so now I have somewhere where I can house them. (Sure. Surely,) taking on new clients that's cool but I'm going to work with the clients that we have first and build them up to the point where they can have what is here. And any new clients that come in, they'll get worked in to the funnel. (That's dope) So it is a process that everybody has to go through because we just can't sell anybody's product (right) in here, because this is a certain aesthetic that has to be maintained. Sure, and it's not in a space is not 100% retail focus, we really only have three or four spaces in the store that's going to have retail, but is the fact that if you come in here and your brand is in here, people are coming in here, getting an experience first, and then they can enjoy your brand second.(That's dope) So that's where we, that's where we wanted to, you know, me working in retail I understand I just understood that experience always has to be first. When product can sell. It's just the experience got to come first. Absolutely. When do you think you're gonna have this place up and running? So we'll be open for Black Friday, and then we might shut down for a week. And then we'll be up and ready to go by mid December. So you expecting to be there for Christmas. Throughout Christmas season? Yeah, without a doubt in our membership should launch the second week of December, if they don't last the second week in December, because we got to finish up some of the amenities and make sure that they're 100% ready to go. Then if they will start January 1st That's dope. So if you guys are tuning in to today's episode, I got my man Charles Jay here from Urbane, Urbane right? that's how you pronounce it. (Yup) Name of the brand is Urbane. If you're interested in his story. If you're interested in his brand, or if you're interested in the space Avenue Black. There's going to be a link in the, in the description section of this video, and it'll take you to his uh his website, his Instagram, it'll get you some information about how you can get get more info on what it is that he's doing. Um, Charles. Is there anything that you want to ask me? Do you have any thoughts, any questions that you have for me before I let you go? So what, what made you want to start a podcast Me? huh. Okay. So, what made me start a podcast? Well, I've been in business for 20 years. Right? I, I've been in business for myself. Since I will say about 16 years old, right? And I feel like throughout that process. I've, I've gotten to meet a lot of interesting people. And every, and all the people that that I've met. They all have an underlying grit. They have an underlying personality, underlying grit. And this is something that I wanted to dive into. And I wanted to provide that kind of value and storytelling to people that are going to be the next wave of entrepreneurs, right? well they're currently the you know the current wave of entrepreneurs. There's people watching this and there there's, they're starting their music career. You know, they want some guidance man, not everybody has the ability to have a conversation like this, right? There's people that they don't have a family member that owns a business so they don't think it's accessible. Right. There's people that you know they're they're looking at this channel, and they're trying to figure out what their next move is. So I feel like that that's a very valuable thing. That's why I started this podcast. (Anyway) so I think in this world, this new world man you gotta, you got to give people some real stuff. You know what I mean. Everybody's trying to take bro, but I feel like that this can be valuable for the right people. So that's why I started this podcast. So you guys watching this, this is, this is The Hustleman Show. This is Charles Jay. It's the Urbane episode, make sure you check out his, his, his Co Op, his cooperative workspace is WeWork slash fashion workspace. Make sure you check out his label and just make sure you check out the guy you know I feel like his story is really cool, his brand is really interesting. And this is, I feel like there's one thing that overarching is your whole story your whole narrative man. It's not just the brand, it's not just a workspace. Your, your story is the grit, it is the hustle, right, you have to beat the biggest demon in the world man one of the big life. You know, you got to be able to survive, right? So that's kind of a big deal. So that's where we'll leave it Yeah, Charles thank you for being on the show I appreciate you, man. I love man I appreciate it I love being here. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you for watching and remember, it's business as always personal. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of The Hustleman Show make sure you click that subscribe button tap that bell for the audio experience to Spotify and SoundCloud. Links are below to follow us on Instagram and Twitter. It's @Capswagusa. Remember, the business is always personal.

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